SEO is using deodorant instead of washing. SEO is masking bad coffee with sugar. SEO is cramming instead of studying. SEO is using pain killers instead of going to the dentist. SEO is taking weight loss pills instead of exercising. SEO is a comb-over. SEO is Scientology. SEO is Paris Hilton. SEO is the Zune. SEO is the morning-after pill. SEO is astroturf. SEO is not the real thing. SEO is cutting corners. SEO is not the solution. SEO is bullshit.
50 Comments
OMG.My friend,you are a poet.
Posted by langmuir at 7:37 am on 13 February, 2008.
Don’t tell all the Indian SEO company who ‘optimised’ one of my ex-client’s sites by saving down all the PHP generated pages into HTML…. SEOing it, and then uploading the html.
And yes… that meant that there was no dynamic content no more, and when they updated their product DB though my beautiful admin backend area - the ’store’ didn’t change on the front-end.
Of course this was my fault for it just breaking. Oh, and of course the SEO boys hadn’t taken a backup.
Posted by Robin Blandford at 7:55 am on 13 February, 2008.
problem is, I use deodorant, I don’t wash, I like sugar, I hate studying, I hate the dentist, exercising? don’t point out my bald patch, if its good enough for Tom, come on… you would, boo to apple, has got me out of tricky situations in the past, we live in Ireland, grass is wet, philisopically… what is real? corners are bad.
Great post… worthy of Ewan
Posted by Patrick at 8:51 am on 13 February, 2008.
Hi Eoghan
Great blog so far, I look forward to reading new unashamed posts that get right to the point.
I agree with your view on SEO but I’d also look for the true nature of SEO that will benefit website owners.
I write a CMS which produces pages that have the correct META tags, appropriate page names, appropriate headings, alt tags etc. It doesn’t let the user continue without them. I find it works, I aim it to produce pages that Google can understand and index.
After the items I’ve listed above, which to me are SEO at work, I’d like to see what others do on their sites to optimize their sites for search engines. As part of Open Coffee, would a document of hints and tips be useful to site owners in the same way that the Documents project aims to provide standard business/legal documents to small businesses?
Posted by Gordon Murray at 9:45 am on 13 February, 2008.
Good post, Eoghan. And *almost* on the button.
SEO isn’t bullshit in my opinion. SEO is a valuable part of the Web design process. There’s nothing wrong with a designer tailoring their client’s site content a little in order to rank well on Google. Putting some keywords in the title bar, creating good, relevant content that’s updated regularly in order to rank well and even tweaking keywords within this content in order to get a little boost in the SERPs if it doesn’t sacrifice the user experience.
What really pisses me off is this gamut of ‘professional SEOs’ who game the system and claim to offer their clients some kind of valuable service when all they’re doing is selling empty promises/snake oil. My apologies in advance to those that I actually know… but I’m not going to compromise my professional integrity just to be popular. A lot of people in this industry have sacrificed sweat, blood and tears over the years to become good designers or good programmers. It really gets my goat when a few cowboys come out of nowhere and jump on a niche bandwagon, trying to con money out of clients, further tarnishing and devaluing an industry which is still trying to gain some credibility.
The ‘SEO industry’ as SEO’s like to call it (f**king hell!) literally cropped up overnight and all of a sudden there were experts everywhere. People who actually DID know how to game the system well had been around a good while longer and generally had a fairly in-depth knowledge. But at doing what? Telling one client they’d get them ranked first on Google… then telling another client the very same thing! SEO as a standalone service is bullshit. Everyone in this industry should be aiming to create websites for users that serve their client’s business needs. Not to serve their client’s business needs and ignore users by not caring about design, usability, etc.
Posted by Ken Stanley at 10:27 am on 13 February, 2008.
Eoghan, is your point here that properly designed web sites dont need ‘SEO’ because ‘the big G’ will love them automatically and put them to the top of the list?
SEO is not one specific element as you know and getting to the top of the search engines takes more than a well designed site. The bottom line is that my new 10 grand website looks great but no one can find it?? So who am I gonna call?
Well i could use Adwords, which will do google nicely, or I can get a SEO company in to try and help out. Or I could roll up my sleeves and do it myself. But what do I do? Where do I start?
Google makes 85 trillion squillion on adwords revenue daily so I’m guessing a pretty strong conspiracy theory would fit quite nicely. ‘Sandbox’ anyone?
You have been highlighting many issues with web designers / sites in general so what dont you put your head above the parapet and let us see a list of the sites that you have designed and tell us why they are so great. And how they rank in the search engines??
Posted by Mike at 10:38 am on 13 February, 2008.
Now that you’ve got that off your chest - why don’t you explain to your readers why you hold that opinion
Posted by Paul Walsh at 11:05 am on 13 February, 2008.
Mike, I think the point that Eoghan is making is that there’s no need for SEO as a standalone service. You can sell it as much as you want to and claim to be a niche expert but, at the end of the day, it’s just part and parcel of the Web design mix and should never be given more weight than certain other aspects of production - particularly the user experience. Let’s face it, 99% of effective SEO can be performed with maybe 5% of the knowledge available. In my experience, many SEO’s overvalue themselves, claim to offer a more important service than they actually do and make something relatively simple look incredibly complex.
Posted by Ken Stanley at 11:21 am on 13 February, 2008.
Thanks for all the comments, guys.
Robin: Nightmare! But that’s just stupid. Most SEO guys aren’t that bad.
Patrick: Exactly. Cutting corners is always easier, as are quick-fixes.
Gordon: You’ll find such tips all over the web. What I advocate is best practices which include the benefits of SEO services.
Mike: Straight for the jugular!
I’ll put my work out there when the time is right for all to see and judge and throw tomatoes at.
Mike, Ken, Paul: I need to back this up with a full post on my thoughts but just wanted to put this out there and nail my colours to the mast. But in short, yes, I think SEO as a stand-alone service is bullshit. I used to study, practice and charge for SEO, so I know what the process involves. I genuinely believe that the only reason you need to hire someone specifically for SEO is if your site wasn’t built using best practices in the first place. Relevant page titles, human-friendly urls, accessible alt attributes, title attributes, semantic markup and on-topic content is all part of best web development practices. Link-building and keyword stuffing and other such bollocks is not best practices, it’s—dare I say the word again—bullshit.
Posted by Eoghan McCabe at 11:23 am on 13 February, 2008.
“Let’s face it, 99% of effective SEO can be performed with maybe 5% of the knowledge available.”
Very true. The other 1% is just dodgy tricks, IMHO.
Posted by Eoghan McCabe at 11:25 am on 13 February, 2008.
It’s your blog yadda, yadda, yadda, but I’d question the wisdom and validity of posts which are so absolutist in tone. I fear the law of diminishing returns here - while the posts are entertaining, at some point you will have to offer positive solutions and not just negativity. Otherwise you just become the crazy guy in the street shouting.
Negativity is easy. We’ve been doing it for years on the Creative Ireland web forum.
One thing SEO is handy for is beating stupid ideas out of clients. Let’s be honest here, most commercial clients do not care about web standards or accessibility - but they do care about their Google ranking.
As a core element of SEO hinges on the other two practices, it’s an ideal way to introduce them under the radar and dissuade the client from 100% Flash sites, splash pages, frames etc. Which benefits the client in the long run anyway.
Posted by Derek Lawless at 11:47 am on 13 February, 2008.
Hi Eoghan,
Its true that such tips are all over the web, the same could be said for creating business documents that small and start up businesses will need at some point.
As a group, isn’t there a moral obligation for Open Coffee to set or indicate best practices for the businesses that come along afterwards? In this case SEO.
I notice the Contrast site doesn’t have meta tags and has its CSS inline instead of a .CSS file of its own. Not to poke holes, I don’t mean to to negative, only to ask if as a group we can recommend standards? I’d be happy to add a page to the Cork Open Coffee site with permission.
Posted by Gordon Murray at 11:48 am on 13 February, 2008.
Derek: “Otherwise you just become the crazy guy in the street shouting.”
I hear you, buddy. Honestly, I do. Thanks for the kick in the arse. I need one from time to time. But I still think SEO is bullshit.
Posted by Eoghan McCabe at 11:52 am on 13 February, 2008.
Just to be clear I do not not pitch myself as an expert on SEO, or even close. I have first hand experience in running several web based businesses and the major problem with them all is getting traffic to them.. ie punters who will part with cash or submit a ‘lead’ etc…
Having a great user experience is essential to ‘converting’ and keeping these visitors but it stil gets back to how do these visitors find my site?
Unless I use PPC or wait months, even years for google to pick the site up (and rank it) I may not ever get a return on my investment.
So if you guys are now saying that SEO is all part of the service (of good webdesign) I assume now that I can expect a great ranking and will have no need to worry about getting tons of visitors as soon as I launch ??!!
Posted by Mike at 12:11 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Mike, I speak for myself but I think what’s being said is that a good Web designer will be able to perform more than enough SEO to achieve sufficient ranking. If you want to concentrate on gaming search engines to get your client’s sites above their competitors then fine. I’m sorry though… like most users, I use search engines to find relevant content. Not to be sold products necessarily. SEO’s who aggressively game the system ruin the Web experience and the value of search engines for the rest of us (i.e. users). End of story.
Let Google master the art of indexing relevant content with their ad revenue bit on the side. Stop trying to trick them into providing their users with content that they don’t want to see by gaming the organic rankings and taking advantage of the (slowly) evolving algorithms. It’s cheating and it results in a poor user experience.
Posted by Ken Stanley at 12:20 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Man, do I love that photo.
SEO *is* bullshit, the list of things an SEO expert would do to your site are things that any concerned developer *would* do anyway.
The rest of the problem of getting traffic to the site and increasing the visibility, is not SEO. It’s marketing…
Posted by David Rice at 12:40 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Ironically, Eoghan is likely to rank well for both SEO and, due to his last post, for some of his competitors company names. You really think SEO is bulls**t, Eoghan? Huh? Do you? *nudge nudge*
Posted by Ken Stanley at 12:46 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Ken: SEO, Search Engine Optimisation Ireland, Ireland SEO, SEO Dublin, Professional SEO, Search Engine Ranking, Irish SEO. Does that answer your question?
Posted by Eoghan McCabe at 12:49 pm on 13 February, 2008.
It’s not shit but I know why you’re saying it is. My hands are too cold to type much more (don’t ask) so I’ll get someone else to comment - he’s not from an SEO company (which I think is where you’re coming from). He co founded Kelko which is a price comparison site which clearly, required SEO.
Posted by Paul Walsh at 12:54 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Sorry Eoghan, that doesn’t answer my question.
Web design Ireland
Posted by Ken Stanley at 12:55 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Just bluff the way in SEO.
Posted by langmuir at 12:55 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Interesting Ken, you assume that I have used ‘gaming’ to achieve any results I have got.
So in your mind anybody that has improved a web sites ranking has ‘gamed’ the search engines. Now that is ‘Bullshit’.
What about getting a website designed by ‘web designers’ and then asking how do I get traffic to it….. Eh well that will require SEO and that will cost X oh and we cant gaurantee results…. Oh and heres a company that can do it….
Bullshit is a very appropriate word.
It’s the ‘web designers’ that have created the ‘SEO Industry’ because of the quality of sites that are designed. Its easy for ‘SEO’ guys to improve rankings because the very basics of web standards are not adhered to.
He who casts the first stone and all that…..
Posted by Mike at 12:58 pm on 13 February, 2008.
I agree Mike. Incompetent cowboy Web designers paved the way for another bunch of cowboys to come riding in on their horses, shooting their guns in the air and raping and pillaging clients. No argument there.
What I’m saying is that, in an ideal industry, competent Web designers should be offering responsible Web design AND SEO all rolled into one. There is no need for stand-alone SEO’s in my opinion. Particularly if they’re people who only care about SEO, don’t have industry experience as designers/developers and couldn’t give a fiddlers about the user experience. SEO is easy and COMPETENT designers and developers should be aware of SEO best practice. Anyone who’s manufactured a science out of SEO and claims be able to solve all of their clients on-line problems through is a bullshitter.
Posted by Ken Stanley at 1:18 pm on 13 February, 2008.
SEO is Paris Hilton
LOL that has to be one of the funniest things ive heard… But when u think about its true… Paris Hilton the most SEO hollywood star there is… and at the end of it all she makes the rest of us look normal.
Posted by Alan O Connor at 1:33 pm on 13 February, 2008.
Saying “META tags” is how we spot you, Gordon.
Posted by John Handelaar at 1:50 pm on 13 February, 2008.
re: Paros Hilton - according to this article, she is actually SEO - http://chartreuse.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/why-paris-hilton-is-famous-or-understanding-value-in-a-post-madonna-world/
Posted by Stewart Curry at 3:05 pm on 13 February, 2008.
you are my man!
Posted by petnos at 1:29 pm on 14 February, 2008.
I’ve been saying this for ever - maybe not as funny. Bottom line - make your site according to accepted UE principles, and it at least has the basic SEO principles in place.
Posted by Speener at 4:46 am on 16 February, 2008.
SEO is all about writing a blog post saying it is bullshit and then getting other people to add lots of comments to give the post even more fresh content. so that it ranks for “seo is bullshit”
Those people then link to it from all other the place to give it link equity. THAT is SEO.
Posted by Philip Wilkinson at 7:57 am on 16 February, 2008.
Well in my opinion, SEO is not bullshit. I added a url to google last week and within 5 days it was in position number 3 on the google rankings… Bit of clever webpage design and a bit of time and effort on the page content and you can get results… this is the site - http://scientificjobs.ie, search for “Scientific Jobs” in google if you want to see proof
Posted by Eamonn OR at 10:45 pm on 17 February, 2008.
I don’t think anyone is saying that SEO doesn’t work Eamonn. Just that gaming search engines instead of providing useful content and a rich experience is bullshit. If people concentrated on making decent websites instead of SEO’ing shit ones to the max, the Web would be a better place.
Posted by Ken Stanley at 4:13 pm on 18 February, 2008.
I understand completely Ken - the only reason my site was listed so quickly and so high up the rankings was a combination of a content-rich relevant site, combined with a modicum of SEO in mind…
Posted by Eamonn OR at 8:14 am on 19 February, 2008.
Eamonn - The reason your site is ranking so well is:
1. domain name contains both words (scientificjobs) and also .ie which means you rank well for Ireland (#2)
2. Page title has 3 repeats of “scientific jobs”
3. than you have it twice again in the description
If I do the same search in Google.com you are nowhere on page 1 and same for google.co.uk
The moral is - the phrase is not very competitive in Ireland and makes it very easy to rank for. What other “keywords” do you rank well for, “with a brand new website”?
Anyhow - Good job.
Posted by Eire-WebDesign at 7:36 pm on 19 February, 2008.
The strength is in the capability to laugh and make jokes about yourself. Well done Eoghan!!!
Ivan
Posted by Ivan at 9:00 pm on 19 February, 2008.
Look, I’ve seen a lot of articles like this on the web lately, bad-mouthing SEO. Sure, it can get crappy websites to the top, and it can promote spam like crazy, but it’s not ONLY that use that it’s good for. Anyway, if you’re interested, I even gave you a little link-love down here: http://eydryan.com/2008/02/21/seo-blog-reaction-seo-is-bullshit-umm-not-really/
Posted by eydryan at 10:58 pm on 20 February, 2008.
Eoghan…
Thanks for your comments… I disagree, the phrase “scientific jobs” is highly competitive among certain sectors here in Ireland…
I am interested in the local market - it doesn’t really matter if the phrase comes up in google.co.uk…
I would also expect that inbound links from the independent sites - science.ie (PR 5), biotechnology ireland and Irish Universities Promoting Science also have some bearing on the ranking - its not just meta tags and keyword phrasing…
Other keywords we rank well for are:
Life Science, Science recruitment agency, chemistry jobs, science recruitment consultancy, scientific careers ireland, life science careers, laboratory jobs etc…
Posted by Eamonn OR at 11:33 am on 22 February, 2008.
I think the operable definition of SEO used in your post is something of the factory-templated SEO that many companies make big money from.
My definition of SEO is search results from good standards-based web development.
Posted by Sean at 5:27 pm on 28 February, 2008.
Eoghan, you know its not bs which is why you’ve posted something which is intelligent linkbait…check those trackbacks baby yeah.
Posted by Webmonkey-Ireland at 3:46 pm on 9 March, 2008.
One of the tools of SEO is ‘linkbait’
Post something contentious.
Watch all those inbound links come flying in.
Watch the comments increase.
Watch all those ‘elitist’ SEO types come rushing in to defend SEO.
Just watch SEO at work
But I agree, it’s BS.
Posted by Shiner at 1:06 am on 22 March, 2008.
Yeah, that’s pretty much my take on it. But, what’s wrong with washing and THEN putting on deodorant? Every little detail, my friend, every little detail.
Posted by Secret Owl at 11:17 pm on 3 April, 2008.
couldn’t have said it any better. i’m going to show this page to our clients who ask if we do SEO.
Posted by jonathan at 8:25 pm on 14 May, 2008.
Any way, I just try to prove it by participating on a SEO Contest
Posted by Busby SEO Challenge at 6:46 am on 10 June, 2008.
nah nah nah. Bots are stupid, that’s how come people like to con them and make them run around in circles. Now that’s clearly not on, but putting out the right food for the bots is absolutely key.
It’s not SEO. It’s Spam, that’s the devil. Spam is fraud, lying, deception. Spam isn’t food. Spam is poison.
Posted by da bishop at 1:21 pm on 12 September, 2008.
SEO is not rocket science, it merely requires fundamental structural principles in place as well as some choice keyword integration for the basis, and the rest is building link credibility.
It’s not just “Indian” programmers or other stereotypical concepts but rather a question of ethical business practice that is the real problem. And it’s not just small companies either for even GoDaddy and NetworkSolutions “upsell” useless “seo” drivel without the slightest concern for the validity of their alleged “service”.
What may be even more unnerving is the widespread egotism of programmers who think that because they do not understand the value of something that it is therefore useless.
Posted by ijostl at 5:47 am on 11 October, 2008.
You’ve said SEO way too many times, Google may punish you for suspected keyword spamming.
Posted by Russell Bishop at 1:05 pm on 11 October, 2008.
I’ve worked in “SEO” for 8 years now and while I think it’s a blanket statement to say all SEO is bullshit - I’ll admit there is some truth to the statement in that there are a lot of bullshitters (I’ve seen my share of snake oil practitioners who’ve took the money and run) and that all the fundamentals of good web site design (navigation, well designed pages, usability etc.) are essential to a web site being found in the SE’s. More importantly good developers should know this, understand this and implement it.
However like all industries there are good and bad - bad seo guys and bad developers (in my past experience even developers are capable of writing a website with noindex, nofollow on every single web page). I’d like to think that my 5% knowledge helps to highlight such mistakes and helps to remedy them when needed.
I consider myself an online marketeer rather than simply an SEO guy - helping to promote businesses online and helping them to get a good ROI rather than just being #1 for a relevant keyword or phrase and that’s definitely how I’d like my clients to see me.
Posted by ady berry at 2:24 pm on 13 October, 2008.
I’m going to bookmark this and refer people to it when necessary.
I like to tell folks, “The best way to get your site listed at the top of the search engines is by being a useful and valuable resource. So you should work on that.”
Posted by Name at 6:02 pm on 27 October, 2008.
SEO is listick on a pig?
Posted by joseph at 8:22 pm on 27 October, 2008.
I think the fact that SEO has to be a FEATURE that designers offer, and a standalone service that other businesses offer, is bullshit.
SEO should be expected.
SEO should be easy.
SEO should not be what it has become today.
Posted by brandon at 7:45 am on 28 October, 2008.
Haha! Nice one!
Posted by Archit at 10:03 am on 28 October, 2008.
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